How To Use Spray Max 2k Clear Coat

Borba Penig1955 · Monday, 22 November 2021

Dry time between rattle can basecoat and Spray Max 2K clear

So, I'm prepping to respray some work I did already (see my other thread), and I want to make try to make sure I don't have to do it a 3rd time before I put in my windshield!
I'm super confused about paint types/chemicals versus paint process, dry times, etc. I'm learning this all on my own as best I can.

The first time I sprayed, I used aerosol base coat and clear coat from automotivetouchup.com. It's what I believe is an acrylic lacquer basecoat and 1K acrylic lacquer clearcoat. I don't even really know what that means, but I do understand how to lay down the paint. 10 minutes or so between base coats, then wait 45 minutes or so and then clear. No sanding between base and clear as the chemicals will "melt" into each other so long as I'm inside the recoat window. *As far as I understand*

But this time I'd like to step up my game a little bit and spray Spray Max 2K clear over my base coat. The manufacturer of the base coat recommends this clear and sells it on their website with the package, so I'm less concerned about overall compatibility, but dry/tack/recoat times confuse me between what I perceive to be different chemical vs mechanical processes.

The data sheets for the 2K clear state that it is "two part acrylic resins", but I don't know if that makes it the same minus hardener or not.

I've read that acrylic lacquer takes forever to gas out (or whatever), and that clearing over it with something other than lacquer without giving it time to cure is bad juju. I would have no problem waiting and scuffing to clear several days or weeks later, but my base coat is metallic and I've also read that sanding that base coat could lead to problems with the metallic as well.

I'm really stumped here.

I can read the ingredients on the cans (or photograph them) if that will be useful, and I'd love to be pointed in the direction of some reliable documentation about all this, as the internet really seems to be failing me in this endeavor!

Thanks!
If the supplier is selling the base and the clear in one package then they are probably compatible. If the base is a one part product (without hardener) then just wait for it to dry a little before applying your clear. The dry time will depend on the temperature during the application of the base but at around 70 degrees F you will usually be ok to apply the clear in a half hour or so.
The word "acrylic" is just telling you that it's a "plastic like" product.
Can't wait...

Originally Posted by Uridian

So, I'm prepping to respray some work I did already (see my other thread), and I want to make try to make sure I don't have to do it a 3rd time before I put in my windshield!

I'm super confused about paint types/chemicals versus paint process, dry times, etc. I'm learning this all on my own as best I can.

The first time I sprayed, I used aerosol base coat and clear coat from automotivetouchup.com. It's what I believe is an acrylic lacquer basecoat and 1K acrylic lacquer clearcoat. I don't even really know what that means, but I do understand how to lay down the paint. 10 minutes or so between base coats, then wait 45 minutes or so and then clear. No sanding between base and clear as the chemicals will "melt" into each other so long as I'm inside the recoat window. *As far as I understand*

But this time I'd like to step up my game a little bit and spray Spray Max 2K clear over my base coat. The manufacturer of the base coat recommends this clear and sells it on their website with the package, so I'm less concerned about overall compatibility, but dry/tack/recoat times confuse me between what I perceive to be different chemical vs mechanical processes.

The data sheets for the 2K clear state that it is "two part acrylic resins", but I don't know if that makes it the same minus hardener or not.

I've read that acrylic lacquer takes forever to gas out (or whatever), and that clearing over it with something other than lacquer without giving it time to cure is bad juju. I would have no problem waiting and scuffing to clear several days or weeks later, but my base coat is metallic and I've also read that sanding that base coat could lead to problems with the metallic as well.

I'm really stumped here.

I can read the ingredients on the cans (or photograph them) if that will be useful, and I'd love to be pointed in the direction of some reliable documentation about all this, as the internet really seems to be failing me in this endeavor!

Thanks!

You're one of the guys who I can't wait for you to be better set up to do this work with a compressor and spraygun. I say this for multiple reasons but the utmost is the fact that you display the drive and willingness to fight all the way to success. Plus the fact that the rattle cans, over time, will cost a lot of money.
Now, for something you may not want to hear. First off is rattle can paint products (couple exceptions) are lacquer based and simply will not hold up for the long term. They are weak, the application is very thin and they don't tolerate certain things because of what thy lack over a decent true base coat/clear coat (catalyzed) product.

IMPORTANT: You need to know that certain lacquer base coats such as DUPLICOLOR, although they provide good looking colors in a spray can are lacquer base products. Problem comes when and if you top that paint off with a catalyzed clearcoat. I DON'T want you to find out the hard way that the clear is a URETHANE and does not cooperate sitting on top of the lacquer and WILL peel off. SURE, the clear will look good when applied and stay that way for a short while until it gets a chip or scratch. Then it will ALL begin to peel.

My point to you is, you're spending good, dedicated time (and money) to your project with products that are not the best for longevity and in critical areas like the correction of rust around your windows, etc.

Listen, if you're doing smaller areas as you describe, then a 3HP 25 gallon (220v) compressor and a half decent gun will serve you well. You could paint your entire roof or nose or side of a car with the compressor I mention and should be able to pick one up for cheap money.

I love people coming here with your drive. You will succeed and best to you. Keep posting & thanks.

Henry
I would like to see a picture of the spray clear or a url to the clear.
as far as the clear goes,
here's the tech sheet
https://download.kwasny.com/datashee...-680061_GB.pdf
here's the web site
https://www.spraymax.com/en/products...2k-clear-coat/
safety data sheet
https://download.kwasny.com/datashee...larlack_GB.pdf
using this product is definitely a step up from regular rattle cans. the spray pattern is pretty decent with moderate orange peel. obviously a real gun is better, but if you're a novice and want it to hold up better than regular aerosols it's the way to go.

most base coat is one part so i think getting that from a spray can is not a big deal.

b marler
I do appreciate your concern, but unfortunately I'm not sure I can get better set up in time for this project. I would *LOVE* to really do things properly. That's just not in the cards at the moment.
This is a project car I'm putting as little money into as possible. The idea is to mess around with it, learn new things as I go, enjoy the process and be as good as I can with what I've got. If this was something like my dream car that I want to be perfect, then I would make sure I was more properly set up before really digging in. Also, I only have one garage space to use, so my wife's new car is sitting in the driveway under an oak tree until I can get the surface of this car suitable to be parked outside without a tarp again. That means getting this area painted and putting a windshield back in it. So time is also of the essence.

I do have a small compressor (2.5hp, 10 gallon, 120v, 6.2cfm@40psi), and an attempt at lvlp spraying a properly catalyzed bc/cc is definitely in my future, but right now, I just need to get this area of this car suitable enough. I know I should have something bigger and better, but I'm already pushing my luck with acceptance from my wife for just dumping money into equipment/tools/paint.

Now, all that said, I'll be spending something in the vicinity of $150 for all the aerosol basecoat and clearcoat for this project. (I'm also going to slap a new fender and nose panel on). There could be an argument that now is the time for the spray gun and proper paint, if that is a realistic setup. I won't be getting a new compressor any time soon, so I need LVLP (i think). The only really affordable gun that seems to support my meager air supply is the Sprayit SP-33000 (around $45). Is it realistic to expect that I can outfit myself with the spray gun, associated accessories (air/oil filters, cups, etc), plus the paint and clear for anywhere near that cost? I would be well aware I won't have a perfect finish of course, but maybe my result would be more correct and durable nonetheless?

A further wrinkle is that this area already has the lacquer base/clear over most of it, and I really REALLY don't want to try to sand it all back off. So could I put a catalyzed basecoat over top of a lacquer clearcoat and do things "right" moving forward. Or could I reprime the area with something more suitable as a barrier?

Thanks again!
Originally Posted by Uridian

I do appreciate your concern, but unfortunately I'm not sure I can get better set up in time for this project. I would *LOVE* to really do things properly. That's just not in the cards at the moment.

This is a project car I'm putting as little money into as possible. The idea is to mess around with it, learn new things as I go, enjoy the process and be as good as I can with what I've got. If this was something like my dream car that I want to be perfect, then I would make sure I was more properly set up before really digging in. Also, I only have one garage space to use, so my wife's new car is sitting in the driveway under an oak tree until I can get the surface of this car suitable to be parked outside without a tarp again. That means getting this area painted and putting a windshield back in it. So time is also of the essence.

I do have a small compressor (2.5hp, 10 gallon, 120v, 6.2cfm@40psi), and an attempt at lvlp spraying a properly catalyzed bc/cc is definitely in my future, but right now, I just need to get this area of this car suitable enough. I know I should have something bigger and better, but I'm already pushing my luck with acceptance from my wife for just dumping money into equipment/tools/paint.

Now, all that said, I'll be spending something in the vicinity of $150 for all the aerosol basecoat and clearcoat for this project. (I'm also going to slap a new fender and nose panel on). There could be an argument that now is the time for the spray gun and proper paint, if that is a realistic setup. I won't be getting a new compressor any time soon, so I need LVLP (i think). The only really affordable gun that seems to support my meager air supply is the Sprayit SP-33000 (around $45). Is it realistic to expect that I can outfit myself with the spray gun, associated accessories (air/oil filters, cups, etc), plus the paint and clear for anywhere near that cost? I would be well aware I won't have a perfect finish of course, but maybe my result would be more correct and durable nonetheless?

A further wrinkle is that this area already has the lacquer base/clear over most of it, and I really REALLY don't want to try to sand it all back off. So could I put a catalyzed basecoat over top of a lacquer clearcoat and do things "right" moving forward. Or could I reprime the area with something more suitable as a barrier?

Thanks again!

Lacquer as a substrate can be a problem when applying a two part paint on top. You can apply a barrier coat on the lacquer then apply your primer but a good barrier products isn't cheap.
Originally Posted by bmarler

most base coat is one part so i think getting that from a spray can is not a big deal.

What does "one part" mean in this context? Obviously, it's not catalyzed, but does that imply some sort of compatibility with a urethane clear coat? And is the Spray Max 2K Clear a urethane clear? How would one even know?
I have a million questions about all this stuff, and I find conflicting information everywhere I look.
Originally Posted by Uridian

What does "one part" mean in this context? Obviously, it's not catalyzed, but does that imply some sort of compatibility with a urethane clear coat? And is the Spray Max 2K Clear a urethane clear? How would one even know?

I have a million questions about all this stuff, and I find conflicting information everywhere I look.

Right, one part is no catalyst. Most "base coat" products are designed to use under a clear coat. I haven't used any of the Spray Max clear but, since it has a hardener I'd say it's probably an acrylic urethane clear.
Originally Posted by Len

Right, one part is no catalyst. Most "base coat" products are designed to use under a clear coat. I haven't used any of the Spray Max clear but, since it has a hardener I'd say it's probably an acrylic urethane clear.

That much I'm aware of. How or why does a one part base coat in an aerosol can differ from the one part base coat intended to be used under a 2K urethane clear coat? Is it purely because aerosol paint manufacturers use lacquer and ready-to-spray paint suppliers use urethane? Is it that simple?
Originally Posted by Uridian

That much I'm aware of. How or why does a one part base coat in an aerosol can differ from the one part base coat intended to be used under a 2K urethane clear coat? Is it purely because aerosol paint manufacturers use lacquer and ready-to-spray paint suppliers use urethane? Is it that simple?

Most base coats are polyester paints. If it says "lacquer" on the label it could still be a poly from Europe because they call most of these types of paint lacquer. If the base coat aerosol is from a different manufacturer it could be a problem under an acrylic urethane.
Rattle cans

Originally Posted by Uridian

That much I'm aware of. How or why does a one part base coat in an aerosol can differ from the one part base coat intended to be used under a 2K urethane clear coat? Is it purely because aerosol paint manufacturers use lacquer and ready-to-spray paint suppliers use urethane? Is it that simple?

For the most part yes, but there is so much more to shooting your own based coat urethane with a spray gun set up. One part urethane base can have a hardner added to it as an option for more resistance to gas, oil, etc.. One part urethane's need to be reduced with thinners that are dependent on temperature you are spraying at, as an instance, the base coat I normally use has 5 different reducers for me to choose from (cool to hot). An aerosol is already reduced and doesn't give you that option. Some urethane bases now require a 2 part mix, but not all. Also, on a rattle can you cannot adjust the pressure or product output to the application condition, cannot adjust on the fly, etc., you get what comes out of their nozzle and have little means to adjust how the droplets hit the surface other than spraying distance to panel. I don't use rattle cans at all, even for small spots I'll mix up and shoot with my touch up gun, it gives me the control for product application, esp for times I want to over reduce.
Poly paint

Len,
"Most base coats are polyester paints. If it says "lacquer" on the label it could still be a poly from Europe because they call most of these types of paint lacquer."

Had not heard this, great info thanks! Good reason to have a touch up gun.
Originally Posted by Ronf

Len,

"Most base coats are polyester paints. If it says "lacquer" on the label it could still be a poly from Europe because they call most of these types of paint lacquer."

Had not heard this, great info thanks! Good reason to have a touch up gun.

Yes, even when we have posts from some European members they call most of their products lacquer even acrylic urethane paints.
Alright. I don't know why I didn't do this earlier, but I just called the manufacturer to ask.
Here is a link to the base coat I'll be using. The can actually says "base coat" on it. So when I asked, she told me it's an acrylic urethane base coat. I confirmed it's not a lacquer and that I was safe to spray a 2K urethane clear over top.

So that means I originally used epoxy primer, followed by acrylic urethane base coat and covered with an acrylic lacquer clear.

In my poorly educated attempt at fixes, I've now sprayed Duplicolor filler primer (and intended to spray more) which is definitely a lacquer. Also, my existing clearcoat is a lacquer that has been sitting for 2 years. Should I be worried about using a lacquer filler primer under urethane, and also should I not be spraying urethane base coat over 2 year old lacquer clear?

I'm pulling my hair out.

*Edit*
Also, when I spoke with the paint company a while back about my initial problem, she told me "don't use rustoleum or krylon primers, as they are not compatible, but duplicolor will be fine". The primer they sell to use with their process is acrylic lacquer primer.